Oh and noted ROVE AND OBAMA CONNECTED. Through DONNA BRAZILE.
Well, I guess since Donna Brazile didn't quit her damn job after the threats to do so if the Super Delegates don't give Obama nation the nod as she thinks he is owed that I wonder about that.
Donna/???
I found out pretty quickly !!!
It's because he has PROMISED her the head of the DNC job.
Where that liar and Oprah-acolyte can do MORE DAMAGE than so far she has managed to do from inside MOVE ON.
As revealed pretty pointedly over to Daily Kos.
I'm gonna copy the whole damn diary and the filthy comments here. I can outcurse the bishops for Obama any ol day of the week. At least in writing.
LOL
DONNA BRAZILE CALLS CLINTONS RACISTS, ASPIRES for OBAMA DNC CHAIR position
by JayATL
Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:53:15 AM PDT
You can see that she has no problem creating inferences that Hillary Clinton is a racist. You can see that she feels she has no responsibility to stand up against sexism. And you can see most shockingly that she resents Democrats for leaving her out in the cold since managing Al Gore"s losing 2000 campaign, finding the highest praise not for those in the Party she aspires to lead, but for Republicans.
JayATL's diary :: ::
I’m making these e-mails public not just because I don’t want to see her on CNN, but because with rumors afoot of her aspirations to be DNC Chair if Obama becomes the nominee, I think it’s important that Democrats see what they would be in for. While I appreciate her willingness to correspond with me, what you can see in these excerpts is an individual who doesn’t have the political saavy to communicate with the public (keep in mind I was an anonymous stranger when she wrote to me) in an appropriate and pro-Party fashion. You can see that she has no problem creating inferences that Hillary Clinton is a racist. You can see that she feels she has no responsibility to stand up against sexism. And you can see most shockingly that she resents Democrats for leaving her out in the cold since managing Al Gore’s losing 2000 campaign, finding the highest praise not for those in the Party she aspires to lead, but for Republicans. Without further ado, here are some choice excerpts from our exchange. (view emails in their entirety here)
ME: I am very disappointed in you. I saw you at the State of the Black Union, and not once did you speak out against a number of sexist and divisive comments about Hillary. I understand the desire to see an African American President. I share that desire. I just don't find Senator Obama, with his limited resume, and few public accomplishments(ie accomplishments for the people, not personal accomplishments like book writing) to have the resume for President, at this point. I think Hillary is correct to point to her strong resume, and that isn't racist.
Donna Brazile(DB): I am very sorry that you tuned into my life just three weeks ago and not the 40 years I have engaged politics on a very personal level.
Just be up to date in your criticism and go back and read my columns, see my interviews and then walk a moment in the shoes of someone who calls a spade a spade. [emphasis added]
Thanks Donna. I don’t know if you’re telling me that you’re a straight shooter or if you’re daring me to use racially charged rhetoric to make a point.
ME: I'm young, but I have been watching you for eight years. You can not possibly think I just tuned in three weeks ago. That's why I expect more from you. You are one of the most prominent female voices of the Democratic Party. Emotions are running high, and the media is just loving to play up the fissures in the Party.
DB: Please don't lecture me about the isms in America . You cannot blame the media for Clinton being behind or running out of money.
It's the strategy stupid... And I for one have gotten down right tired of the lame excuses.
When many of us beat the heck out of Obama last year, we were not called racists.
I, for one, can’t recall Donna ever beating Obama last year.
ME: I don't expect you to watch the sexism. I was hoping for a more fair reading from you. I think it's loopy to think Hillary has run a racist campaign. Really loopy. Again, the 3am ad, winning NH??? These are not signs of racism. If you respect a candidate, you run against them on the merits, which Hillary has done.
DB: Just ask Hillary why is she apologizing to Black folks at every turn.
And now Obama has to denounce his pastor.
Here’s where Donna really ratchets up the rhetoric. She won’t come right out and say Hillary is a racist, but she’ll imply that an apology from Hillary equals an admission of racism. As for Reverend Wright, Obama didn’t have to denounce him. He found it politically expedient to do so.
ME: She doesn't have to. She just is because she doesn't want anyone to feel alienated or offended. I can not believe that's what you really see. How sad.
DB: I defended the Clintons and it was Black people who kept their asses in office. [emphasis added]
Now, show respect and not indifference or worse insularity and more insults.
I am not checking my black or feminist credentials into the locker box for either candidate.
ME: Let's agree on some things. I have never walked a mile in your shoes. I am outraged by the continued institutional racism in our justice system, in our educational system, in our society. We are not at odds here. As far as McCain goes, I dislike him, and his extremist supporters. I do think that if you believe Hillary Clinton is a racist or has employed a racist campaign strategy, you are overreaching to the extreme.
DB: She’s the one apologizing to Black folks. Not me. Not You. She is the one saying I regret. Not me. Not you.
ME: Yes, because she doesn't want any one to be offended. She's a buck stops here person. I think that's an admirable quality.
DB: Blacks have been deeply wounded by the duplicity of the Clintons. Now, you may not like it or agree. But as a black person who helped saved the Clinton presidency, please just respect what I am saying. [emphasis added] Again, you disagree. But, I honestly believe the wounds will not heal. It’s personal and the Clintons have shown their darker demons. [emphasis added] Now, I will end it here. I was Al Gore's Campaign Manager. Let the buck stop here. If I make a decision to go with Obama, people read it as Al Gore hates the Clintons. So, I stay above the bull and do not take bull from the Clintons or the Obamas or the McCains. I don’t owe anybody a dime. And if I counted who has helped me since 2000, its Republican men and not Democrats. Go figure and good night.
Did she just say what I think she said? The aspirant to head the DNC owes her success to Republican men not Democrats. I, for one, can think of at least one notable Republican man who hasn’t done a damn thing for me for the past eight years. Somebody stop her. The author of this post is in no way shape or form employed by or connected to Senator Hillary Clinton's campaign or Senate Office. She has not discussed nor will she be discussing this matter with anyone from Senator Clinton's presidential campaign staff, her Senate staff, nor any of their surrogates or representatives. Nor will there be any contact with President Clinton, his foundations, Chelsea, Mrs. Rodham... you get the idea right? She speaks solely for herself in this.
Update [2008-4-11 10:31:50 by JayATL]: FIRST , Let me apologize for being a 1st time diarist. I know many obama followers have pointed it out in the comments below. Unfortunately, unlike the magical powers your messsiah bestows upon you, I had to have a starting point.
SECOND, many here have access to donna's emails. Simply email her and ask her about this exchange. If proven as a lie... feel free to have me banned from dailyKos for life. I can't show email paths and Ip addresses ... just simply ask her. Obama has his operatives on this board, hell for that matter Markos is his surrogate. Get him to ask her for all I care...
LASTLY, I keep reading this " troll rating threat". Is that supposed to make me cry? ... As a Hillary supporter and of all places here, troll rating by the obama supporters/The cursing by the obama supporters actually puts a big smile on my face. Please continue to curse me out... and add more vile comments to my diary. Promise?
Rove (1+ / 0-)
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Donna Brazille had weekly lunch dates with Karl Rove for years. She said that they were good friends and the they had many interesting things to talk about.
Liberals and conservatives are two gangs who have intimidated rational, normal thinking beings into not having a voice on television or in the culture.
by Dave B on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:55:02 AM PDT
you know (13+ / 0-)
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you're only bashing Donna Brazille, because you're a sexist... (and probably a racist, too)
sorry, couldn't help myself.
But again, I really don't know why Hillary Clinton's the only person in business or politics who is allowed to say that any criticism of her is sexist, and thus not to be taken seriously.
I don't know what's going on with Donna Brazille, but I never saw her as someone particularly close to Obama. She may or may not be lobbying to take over the DNC, but I can't think of any particular reason why Obama would favor her for it.
Barack Obama will only become president if enough people pay attention, so pay attention, dammit!
by JMS on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:57:00 AM PDT
You're not even close (61+ / 0-)
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to proving even an inference that she is calling the Clintons racist, much less the accusation in your inflammatory title.
Put up a tip jar so I can troll rate you.
She gave up duck hunting; it brought back horrible memories of the firefight at Tuzla.
by Inland on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:57:27 AM PDT
WHY DO YOU SAY THE TITLE IS INFLAMMATORY????? (35+ / 0-)
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The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.
by DHinMI on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:07:01 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Because IT'S WILD ASS UNSUPPORTED ACCUSATION? (9+ / 0-)
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I've gotten pummeled for quoting sources that folks on this site don't like.
This diarist makes a claim that unsupported by ANY sources, and that's okay?
To make such an accusation and not even supported it by the un-sourced information provided is bull.
"To kill one person is murder. To kill thousands is foreign policy." Chinese writer Moh-Tze
by ILean Left on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:20:58 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Wait wha? (0+ / 0-)
Look down a few comments man to the diarist's tip jar. People clearly aren't saying it's OK.
Support Temporary Workers' Rights - Change to Win! - -6.12, -4.77
by Scoopster on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:26:21 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Sorry. I missed the /snark. (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
DHinMI
"To kill one person is murder. To kill thousands is foreign policy." Chinese writer Moh-Tze
by ILean Left on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:40:29 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
well, it's sourced: (7+ / 0-)
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The source is "me, the diarist", so there you go. I'm not sure why Donna Brazille would have an extended e-mail conversation with the diarist, but in any event, the alleged emails don't imply, and one can not infer from them, an accusation of Clinto racism.
I think the diary may be more based on racism. It seems that the thesis is that "Obama's going to put all teh blaks in charge" and the way they are going to do it is playing race cards. But the diarist can't even find a card, or a connection between Donna and Barack.
She gave up duck hunting; it brought back horrible memories of the firefight at Tuzla.
by Inland on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:28:36 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
I think that DHinMI was being sarcastic ;-) (3+ / 0-)
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wishingwell, chumley, DaNorr
I know, our sarcasm meters have taken a beating lately.
Learn all about Michele Bachmann. Heheheheh.
by Phoenix Woman on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:13:06 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Yeah. Apologized above for missing /snark! (1+ / 0-)
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Nova Land
My snark-o-meter needs calibrating.
"To kill one person is murder. To kill thousands is foreign policy." Chinese writer Moh-Tze
by ILean Left on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:26:34 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
NO HE WASNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (0+ / 0-)
TAKE THAT BACK, PHOENIX WOMAN!!!!!!!!
! !! !!! !!!! !!!!!
President JOHN McCAIN = George W. Bush's third term.
by chumley on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:59:11 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
NOW WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT?! n/t (1+ / 0-)
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wishingwell
Learn all about Michele Bachmann. Heheheheh.
by Phoenix Woman on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:19:25 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
LMAO. (4+ / 0-)
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That was hilarious. :)
NO REALLY, IT WAS!
"2009" The end of an error
by sheddhead on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:26:48 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
CAPITALIZED DIARY TITLE IS CAPITALIZED! (10+ / 0-)
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Support Temporary Workers' Rights - Change to Win! - -6.12, -4.77
by Scoopster on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:27:41 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
ANYONE HAVE A GREEK SALAD RECIPE? (3+ / 0-)
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Phoenix Woman, Scoopster, Inland
My Mom never taught me to cook. But I can make salads.
"I'm a muse, stupid!"
by Lava20 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:42:12 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
I HAVE A PIZZA DOUGH RECIPE! (0+ / 0-)
3/4 cup warm water 1 tsp yeast 1 tsp sugar (more if yeast is old) 1 tsp olive oil About 2 cups flour
Mix water, yeast and sugar; let sit for five minutes. Add oil and mix well, then start gradually adding flour, mixing all the while, until you get a nice non-sticky dough that in the Italian parlance is "as smooth as a baby's bottom".
Freeze or use immediately. Makes enough for one 15" to 18" pizza, or two 10" pizzas.
Learn all about Michele Bachmann. Heheheheh.
by Phoenix Woman on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:17:19 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Baklava! Can I get Baklava? (1+ / 0-)
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wishingwell
"To kill one person is murder. To kill thousands is foreign policy." Chinese writer Moh-Tze
by ILean Left on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:23:29 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
I DON'T MAKE BAKLAVA!!! WISH I COULD!!! (2+ / 0-)
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AaronInSanDiego, wishingwell
I can't get the pastry to cooperate!
You can try Googling for a recipe, though. :-)
Learn all about Michele Bachmann. Heheheheh.
by Phoenix Woman on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:36:43 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
THANKS, DESERT CANDY!!!!!! (1+ / 0-)
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kitebro
http://desertcandy.blogspot.com/...
Baklava My game plan is usually to make the clarified butter and syrup one day, bake the baklava the follwing day, then let it rest overnight. Check out some ideas for unusual variations listed below. Makes a 9x13 inch pan, easily doubled.
1 lb package phyllo dough, defrosted 3 sticks (12 oz) butter or 1 1/4 cups ghee 2 1/2 cups nuts (walnuts, pine nuts, pistachios, cashews) 3 tablespoons sugar 1 teaspoon cinnamon 1 3/4 cups sugar 1 cup water 1 tablespoon lemon juice 1 tablespoon each rose and orange blossom water
Clarify the butter: melt the butter in a small saucepan over medium heat. Let it boil gently without stirring just until a layer of foam has risen to the surface and the white solids have sunk to the bottom (do not let the solids brown). Remove from the heat and skim off the foam as best you can. Then carefully pour the golden liquid into another container, leaving the solids behind (I normally strain it through a cheesecloth while doing this). Discard the solids. Skip this step if using ghee.
Make the syrup: Place the sugar, water, lemon, and blossom water in a pan and bring to a boil so that the sugar dissolves. Let boil 5-10 minutes until syruppy. Set aside to cool.
Preheat the oven to 350F. Place the nuts, sugar, and cinnamon in a food processor and grind until they form a coarse meal.
Pour 1/4 cup of the clarified butter in the bottom of your pan. Unroll the phyllo and place half of it in the bottom of the pan, trimming the edges to fit. Drizzle 1/2 cup of butter over the phyllo. Spread the nut mixture over top. Lay the remaining phyllo over the nuts (personally, I don’t like my top layer to be quite so thick so I use only about 2/3 of the remaining phyllo). Slowly drizzle the remaining butter over the pan so that phyllo appears evenly moistened. Using a very sharp knife or a razor-blade, score the top of the phyllo in a square or diamond pattern, then use a knife to cut all the way through the score marks to the bottom of the pan.
Place in the oven and bake for 50 minutes to 1 hour, until deeply golden and crisp but not overly browned. Remove from the oven and immediately pour the cool syrup over the hot baklava. Set aside to cool and absorb completely. It is really best if you let it sit overnight, covered with foil, before serving.
Coffee-Hazelnut Baklava- use coffee in place of water in the syrup, use hazelnuts plus 2 tablespoons chocolate-coated espresso beans. Pecan-Bourbon Baklava- use pecans, substitute 1/4 cup bourbon for water in the syrup. Champagne-Rose Baklava- replace the water in the syrup with Champagne. Macadamia-Lime Baklava- macadamia nuts, use the juice and zest of 1 lime and 1 tablespoon rum in the syrup. Pear-Vanilla-Walnut Baklava- use pear nectar and a vanilla bean to make the syrup.
by kpbuick on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:42:33 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
DOES ANYONE HAVE THE RESTROOM KEY?! ANYONE? (1+ / 0-)
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Lava20
My back teeth are swimming!
by brueso on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:54:43 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
I can just smell the burnt food now... (0+ / 0-)
I suck when I have to heat stuff.
"I'm a muse, stupid!"
by Lava20 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:07:46 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Thanks for this! Sounds scrumptious! (2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
kitebro, Lava20
Can't wait for another Troll to grace the site. This is great!
"To kill one person is murder. To kill thousands is foreign policy." Chinese writer Moh-Tze
by ILean Left on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:36:23 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
OF COURSE! (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Lava20
Thick slice peeled cucumbers. Tomatoes cut into chunks. Crumble in some feta. Oregano. Add oil. Sprinkle with vinegar.
She gave up duck hunting; it brought back horrible memories of the firefight at Tuzla.
by Inland on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:50:21 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Sounds good... (0+ / 0-)
heading to store now.
Thanks a million!
"I'm a muse, stupid!"
by Lava20 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:48:10 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
I think you are trying to find something that is (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
SpringFever
not their. I have no problem in what Donna has said, in fact I agree with her.
It is your problem and you are looking for excuses to justify your support of Hillary.
And to counter Hillary is not qualified to be president and would not have been even elected to the senate if she was not married to Bill.
by ronnied on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:09:19 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Methinks your emails are Bullshit (46+ / 0-)
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First Time Diarist and Commenter.
Who was Bush_Horror2004, anyway?
by Dartagnan on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:58:24 AM PDT
excellent point (13+ / 0-)
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didn't think of it, but you've probably nailed it. As if Donna Brazile has nothing better to do than engage in a series of e-mails with a nitwit.
by elmo on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:01:55 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
she definitely responds to personal emails (13+ / 0-)
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I got a nice response to my email to her a couple of weeks ago. That said, I think the diarist's analysis is way off base.
by indybend on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:05:00 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Correction - You believe you got a nice response (2+ / 0-)
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There is absolutely no way to prove if she actually wrote the message. There are multiple ways to share inboxes/mailboxes that would allow anyone working for her (or people who have hijacked her mail) to response to anybody.
--Independent Impressed by Obama!
by SnowItch on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:21:07 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
IF there was an email at all n/t (2+ / 0-)
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MajorFlaw, Dougie
"To kill one person is murder. To kill thousands is foreign policy." Chinese writer Moh-Tze
by ILean Left on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:42:37 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
thanks for accusing me of lying (1+ / 0-)
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that is a first for me at Daily Kos. You really elevated the dialog here.
by indybend on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:12:15 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
well of course that is possible (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
CSI Bentonville
but it sounded like her to me. I'm not cynical enough to dismiss its origin without any evidence
by indybend on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:10:39 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
there isn't inferences that Hillary is racist (31+ / 0-)
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Donna just brings up the fact that Hillary has been apologizing, at multiple times, to black people about statements that have come out of her campaign which have offended black America. And that's a fact, there was the Black State of the Union event and the national meeting of black newspapers.
Your title is misleading and a blatant attempt to smear.
"There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible. But in the end they always fall. Think of it. Always." -- Mahatma Gandhi
by duha on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:59:21 AM PDT
Correct! And the 'friends with Republican thing' (9+ / 0-)
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Is bullshit, as well.
So, let's see, if you have dinner or a conversation with a GOPissant, your're disqualified? Okay, well right the Clinton's off!
Hillary has praised McShame, interviewed with the RW Smear Machine newspaper, and worships with the RW every Sunday with The Family.
This is hogwash.
"To kill one person is murder. To kill thousands is foreign policy." Chinese writer Moh-Tze
by ILean Left on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:17:24 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
and Bill Clinton (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Dougie
is the son that George H.W. Bush WISHES he had instead of the idiot who is now ru(i)nning the country.
They are travelling companions, golfing buddies, and brothers in financial and charitable (double) dealings.
Therefore, what is your point????
by kpbuick on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:42:09 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
gee, thanks (28+ / 0-)
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this has really raised my opinion of Donna Brazile.
You seem completely unaware of how badly you come off in these exchanges.
by elmo on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:59:49 AM PDT
I've not been a Donna Brazile fan (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Phoenix Woman
But she seems to be willing to at least acknowledge facts in these supposed e-mail exchanges. I believe this is actually a real exchange, because the author is unable to comprehend logic or reality, while the respondent appears rational. An irrational author would not be able to maintain an imagined dialog with a rational person.
"That's what killed Dennis Day-- contempt for the audience." -- Phil Hartman as Frank Sinatra
by Pangloss on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:56:21 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Divisive (0+ / 0-)
I'm with you on Donna Brazille. BTD (over at Talk Left) has criticized her heavily for the actions she has taken that have hurt the party and will continue to do so.
(One suggestion: in your recounting of the e-mail exchanges change 'ME' to 'Me'. Next to DB, I was taking them to be initials.)
by Demi Moaned on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:01:09 AM PDT
DB defends these folks when they don't deserve it (1+ / 0-)
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DaNorr
Sometimes, when I watch her on CNN, I think she is actually in the tank for the Clintons.
For those who don't think the Clinton's ruined their creds in the Black community all by themselves, and know it, ask me and I'll break it down for you. Just remember, Blacks and their ministers were the most stalwart supporters of the Clintons during the dark days of their administration and Donna was helpful with that!
That's not Donna's fault. She's ALWAYS publicly defending the Clintons - NO MATTER HOW STUPID THEY'VE BEHAVED!!!
"To kill one person is murder. To kill thousands is foreign policy." Chinese writer Moh-Tze
by ILean Left on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:28:41 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
I agree for the first... (0+ / 0-)
half of the year I thought she was totally with the Clinton's. I never saw her giving any slack to Obama. I saw a slight change in her after SC, kind of a disgust for their tactics, but the next time I would see her she'd have it pulled together and seem pretty unbiased.
by JNSD on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:12:59 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
If BTD says it (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
taylormattd
chances are pretty good it is incorrect. I will never understand how his opinion on politics came to be valued. So far as I can tell he has rarely been correct about anything.
by Bipolar Disorder Democrat on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:11:18 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Can you provide some examples? (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Bipolar Disorder Democrat
I don't always agree with him, but he always gives his reasons, and most of the time I think they are good reasons.
His main fault as I see it is his impatience with people whose reasoning he finds to be lazy.
I think he was very right in his criticisms of Congress last year for not taking stronger actions to end the war. I also think he's right that Obama is a better choice for the Presidential nomination than Clinton.
by Demi Moaned on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:18:25 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
There have been lots of examples over the years (2+ / 0-)
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but I'm not going to rehash many of them. His Supreme Court strategy was stupid. He's way too invested in belief that there must be revotes in MI and FL. He thinks the popular vote metric is the be-all, end-all. But his biggest problem is that he almost always writes like a litigator advocating his position. When he is wrong about something, as he frequently is, he attacks his opponent instead of owning up to his own mistakes. His ego is way too prickly.
by Bipolar Disorder Democrat on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:30:41 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Since we seem to be engaging respectfully ... (0+ / 0-)
despite points of disagreement, I'd like to ask:
Don't you think it would be much better for the party in the fall, particularly the Presidential nominee, that the Convention include elected delegations from both MI and FL? Expecting Obama to be the nominee, as I do, it seems to me that he has more to gain than lose by supporting some plan that accomplishes this-- either imposing a 50% penalty or sponsoring new elections. I think it would be unlikely to endanger his nomination and would certainly confer higher legitimacy as well as electability.
Doesn't Obama seem something of a triangulator, in the manner that we have become so accustomed to in losing Democratic campaigns? Or to put it more plainly, do you think he'll take the fight to McCain as the embodiment of the failed legacy of Republican government?
by Demi Moaned on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 11:00:14 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
I agree (25+ / 0-)
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"I'm not against all wars. I'm against dumb wars." Barack Obama
by DWKING on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:01:18 AM PDT
yep (1+ / 0-)
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Habitat For Humanity
by x on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:07:23 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
No. (9+ / 0-)
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"Did she just say what I think she said? The aspirant to head the DNC owes her success to Republican men not Democrats."
No, she didn't.
She did say: "I don’t owe anybody a dime."
"I was so easy to defeat, I was so easy to control, I didn't even know there was a war." -9.75, -8.41
by RonV on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:01:34 AM PDT
stop with the all-caps titles please (9+ / 0-)
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"This...this is the fault of that Clinton Penis! And that powermongering wife of his!"
by CaptUnderpants on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:01:52 AM PDT
Agree - please edit title to conform to site (3+ / 0-)
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standards.
Diary titles
When choosing a title, please avoid the following:
* Profanity in titles is disallowed. The use of asterisks is acceptable. Profanity in the title of a diary will be changed by an admin to contain asterisks (e.g., "Fuck" => "F**k"). Profanity in the text of diaries, and in comments, is OK; just keep the curse words out of the diary titles.
* "Calling out" other users. This consists of referring to another user, by name, in the title of a diary with a negative connotation. So, diary titles of the form "UserX is a moron" are not allowed. More neutral titles like "A response to UserX" isn't technically "calling out", but many people will interpret it as such. The best strategy is simply not to mention other users in diary titles at all.
* "BREAKING". If some piece of breaking news happens, feel free to write about it, but putting 'BREAKING' in the title won't make you any friends. Just use the news headline itself for the title.
* ALL CAPS. STOP SHOUTING
* 'Please Recommend'. Chances are, people won't.
Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
by Wee Mama on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:10:21 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Oh, yeah, and spell 'Brazile' correctly too. n/t (8+ / 0-)
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Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the streets after them. -Bill Vaughan
by Blue Orb on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:17:11 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Whatever! (12+ / 0-)
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Take this fake mess back to your website Hillary Is (NOT) 44 [Emphasis Added]
Gee, I wonder why you cherry picked these comments and added things that she didn't say. Don't make ME start posting some of the vile racist crap that has been coming from you guys . Oh, and why did you leave out the part where you all call her "brillo head"? Huh? Why did you leave that one out?
You guys have been harassing Donna Brazile for months and slandering her on your website. I'm surprised she didn't tell you where you all can put your fake cries of sexism. How DARE you bring this mess here and attempt to mislead Kossiacks. Pathetic. Really pathetic. No wonder she's sick of you guys.
DON'T BOTHER LYING TO ME ABOUT IT. I'M WAAAAAAYYYYYY TO INFILTRATED IN YOUR LITTLE GROUP. WE'RE EVERYWHERE. REMEMBER THAT !
"Let us find that common stake we all have in one another, and let our politics reflect that spirit as well. " Barack Obama:A More Perfect Union
by WeBetterWinThisTime on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:02:48 AM PDT
Wow! (15+ / 0-)
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Donna needs to stop emailing hillaryis44 members.
by Hope08 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:02:52 AM PDT
This is all based on personal email? (28+ / 0-)
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I’m making these e-mails public not just because I don’t want to see her on CNN, but because with rumors afoot of her aspirations to be DNC Chair if Obama becomes the nominee, I think it’s important that Democrats see what they would be in for. While I appreciate her willingness to correspond with me, what you can see in these excerpts is an individual who doesn’t have the political saavy to communicate with the public (keep in mind I was an anonymous stranger when she wrote to me) in an appropriate and pro-Party fashion.
Bullshit. This should be deleted. Cheap stunt.
by MajorFlaw on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:03:49 AM PDT
Uh huh. Bad form here. (6+ / 0-)
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I think an Admin or Fper ought to delete this unless it can be proven these emails are even legit.
Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar. Edward R. Murrow
by Pager on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:26:35 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
TITLES IN ALL CAPS (19+ / 0-)
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make baby Jeebus cry.
Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society -Mark Twain
by gooners on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:04:03 AM PDT
Did Donna Do something to you? (11+ / 0-)
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I don't get this diary at all. Maybe somebody needs a hug?
Wage peace.
by 4cebwu on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:04:17 AM PDT
Make it very tight hug (4+ / 0-)
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just enough to squeeze the hot air out, then apply an oxygen mask.
Habitat For Humanity
by x on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:11:11 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
a spade is a spade is a spade (18+ / 0-)
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Sorry the truth hurts.From the communication you had with DB I say BRAVO for Donna. The last paragraph you wrote assures me you are full of bs
by desnyder on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:04:29 AM PDT
what a crock of you know what! (8+ / 0-)
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by Dougie on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:05:34 AM PDT
YELLING = great way to convince people. (8+ / 0-)
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You're a charmer, you are!
Seriously: take a look at how you present yourself in writing. Really. Take a look.
Might 'splain some things.
by insects8mybrain on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:05:35 AM PDT
What inferences? (9+ / 0-)
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DB is not blind to tactics used by the C campaign that were racist. Why are you surprised? Why do you think so many AA's deserted their traditional support for the Clintons?
DB has been discussed here on several diaries already.
Plus you have her name spelled wrong in headline.
This sounds like trollishness.
Anthropologists for human diversity; opposing McCain perversity
by Deoliver47 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:05:49 AM PDT
sounds like carville to me (8+ / 0-)
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Judas!
by desnyder on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:06:43 AM PDT
I really like Donna Brazile (4+ / 0-)
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She seems very level-headed and fair.
by Earl3 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:13:45 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
me too! (0+ / 0-)
by desnyder on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 11:21:38 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
You made the case for Brazille (14+ / 0-)
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You probably didn't see that though.
Brazille has the integrity to stay out of this race even though she feels betrayed at a deep level by the Clintons.
By the way, if 90+% of the African Americans in this country are voting for Obama or against the Clintons, that should be telling you something.
This is not a block that votes so uniformly in the primaries - EVER.
But they have been insulted at a deep level by the race baiting. And while the Clintons themselves may not be racists, they have been willing to play on people's fears and prejudices in an effort to win votes by using subtle language - dog whistle language.
As to the charges of sexism. Bullshit. Seriously. That's pure nonsense. Where is your evidence? You have none. Nobody ever provides any when they make that claim. They just make it and call it enough. Well it's not enough. Hillary Clinton isn't losing because she's a woman. Period. She's losing because she's a shitty campaigner and her competition is one of the most inspiring people this country has ever seen. Period.
Thanks for raising my opinion of Donna Brazille though. I was on the fence about her.
What Washington needs is adult supervision. --BARACK OBAMA
by broui on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:07:40 AM PDT
B.S. sexist charges (6+ / 0-)
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By the Clinton campaign is the only way they can ignore a truth... people aren't voting against her because she is a woman, people are voting against her because she is HILLARY CLINTON.
by Joefdb on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:09:14 AM PDT
And a lousy candidate, (2+ / 0-)
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and a dismal manager.
If she can't manage a Primary campaign, she can't handle managing the Free World.
She has passed the incompetent threshold.
Habitat For Humanity
by x on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:15:44 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
If the Clinton's are so worried about... (0+ / 0-)
sexism, then Bill should stop calling Hillary,"the girl".
by JNSD on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:17:30 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure sharing these (3+ / 0-)
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emails is all that considerate.
She talked with you and was rather civil.
I don't have stong ffeelings about Ms. Brazile, either pro or con, but I thought her emails were rather measured, at least as compared to the tone of many conversations hwere that devolve into personal attacks.
Not everyone sees the world the same. Some strong Clinton supporters see many attacks as sexist, while some Obama supporters see the same attacks as fair game and don't know what the screaming is about. Some strong Obama supporters see many attacks as racist, while some Clinton supporters see the same attacks as fair game and don't know what the screaming is about.
This diary, while directed to Obama supporters, discusses that phenomenom, among other things:
Recommended reading for Obama supporters
This part in particular is on point:
My impression is that intense Obama supporters can't understand why everyone isn't as outraged as they are over the latest stupid comment by some Clinton supporter. First, the Obama campaign has crossed lines too, as Mizner points out. Second, many progressives have, according to Mizner,
abdicated the job of trying to hold Obama accountable. Both Move On and Blue Majority gave him endorsements without offering so much as constructive criticism. Kos himself hasn't written one word critical of Obama in several weeks, during which time Obama has sent nothing but alarming signals on the sphere's signature issue: Iraq. Unlike Hillary, he wouldn't ban corporate mercenaries and his advisors are describing his modest withdrawal plan as a "best case scenario" and calling for a large residual force. Also unmentioned by Kos and the other Daily Kos front page bloggers is Obama's attempt to denythat he once held certain liberal positions
.
Recommended reading for Obama supporters
A somewhat similar statement could be made regarding Clinton supporters, although the critique might be different.
My impression is that intense Clinton supporters can't understand why everyone isn't as outraged as they are over the latest stupid comment by some Obama supporter.
This quote of David Mizner in the same diary also made good sense:
I'm not going to defend the Clinton campaign's race-baiting or its praising of McCain at Obama's expense. Nor, though, will I defend the Obama's campaign sexism, or its willingness to claim race-baiting where there is none. I believe history will show both that the Clnton campaign wanted to turn Barack into the "black candidate" and that the Obama campaign wanted to turn Hillary into the racist candidate. They both exploited racial resentment.
Recommended reading for Obama supporters
Seeing through intense partisanship eyees is not always seeing clearly.
I don't see anything really bad that Ms. Brazile said. Rightly or wrongly, some African Americans feel the Senator Clinton used race. I think David Mizner captures what happened better, but Ms. Brazile has a right to her opinion.
"They're going to give their power away when we take their power away." John Edwards
by TomP on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:11:32 AM PDT
(2+ / 0-)
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You're my kind of stupid.
by SteamPunkX on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:11:36 AM PDT
I call Troll and bullshit (11+ / 0-)
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This person has no history on DKos. These do not read like email threads, but quotes taken out of place to fantasy questions.
Please take this trash out of here.
by Singing Lizard on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:15:09 AM PDT
I thought this was snark at first, (1+ / 0-)
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RonV
but it appears that you are serious. I get that you're disappointed with Brazille but your tone was rather provocative and she was obviously irritated by your inability to acknowledge the validity of her position.
Take a deep breath and step back a little, re-read the correspondence and see if you view it differently in a couple of days.
by ahania on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:15:38 AM PDT
I am on Donna's side in this (4+ / 0-)
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You sound naive to me, I know that is offensive, and that is not my intent, but that is how I see it.
JFK Liberal
by Grant Caesar Peters on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:16:05 AM PDT
DNC chair is elected not anointed (4+ / 0-)
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as far as I know. I f Dean is willing to give it another shot, President Obama would be utterly misguided to try to prevent that.
by Sophie Amrain on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:17:11 AM PDT
Interesting reading but... (1+ / 0-)
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Lava20
I gotta go steal some cars CYA.
by Voxefx on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:18:04 AM PDT
Background (0+ / 0-)
Here
by Voxefx on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:24:16 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
lol......eom (0+ / 0-)
"I'm a muse, stupid!"
by Lava20 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:46:22 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
BREAKING: (13+ / 0-)
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MY CAPS LOCK KEY
---Bitter up, Play Ball!
by VelvetElvis on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:18:29 AM PDT
Be careful waht you wish for (3+ / 0-)
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Because in sharing this exchange, you increased my agreement with and respect for Brazile on this issue. I have historically been fairly ambivalent about her. Let me echo her here:
I am not checking my black or feminist credentials into the locker box for either candidate.
There is an excellent diary about Obama having earned the diarist's vote and Clinton having not done so. For many of the points Donna Brazile raised in the exchange shared here, Clinton squandered and most certainly did not earn new votes and lost many through nothing but her, her husband's, and her campaign's actions. None of those things had anything to do do with her gender, a gender I share.
Sorry. You're selling, but I am not buying.
by Vita Brevis on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:18:32 AM PDT
Brazile for DNC Chair! (3+ / 0-)
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I think this entire email exchange is a fake, but nevertheless, if Donna actually did say those things, I say, YOU GO GIRL!.....you might try posting this fabrication at www.mydd.com.......it'll make the rec list in 2 seconds and they will make you a saint.
"vote for me or the Children will die" HRC
by Feliks on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:22:57 AM PDT
Bravo, Donna B.! n/t (1+ / 0-)
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by juca on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:27:58 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Why should I believe any of this? (2+ / 0-)
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Even if true, nothing Brazile said proves the diarist's point. But I find it very hard to believe that Brazile would engage in such a lengthy email exchange with some random person.
First time diarist with unverified emails from a high-ranking Dem? Riiiiiiiight.
by jenesq on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:27:32 AM PDT
if these e-mails are genuine (2+ / 0-)
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the you go girl, I Love Donna Brazille Speak the truth Donna.
by adocarbog on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:27:49 AM PDT
Bad Form to post Private Emails (3+ / 0-)
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Recipe for Spam: John McCain's First Product Endorsement - HINT - it's not Viagra!
Top 10 (Recent) Hillary Whoppers
Watch Hillary laugh away a question about Columbia when she couldn't come up with a lie fast enough...
Jabberwonk! Reality Based Liberal Link Dump
by Jimmy Crackcorn on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:28:14 AM PDT
You beat me to it (0+ / 0-)
I hope the diarist received permission from Brazille to publish her correspondence. Otherwise it's not only bad form but technically a violation of copyright.
“Hillary: Get Elected or Lie Tryin’.” -- Bill Maher
by winsock on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:33:20 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
ZZZZZZZZZzzzzz (2+ / 0-)
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Bullshit diary. Were are your sources? Oh... And Donna Brazile would make a damn good DNC chair w/ or w/o Obama, so there!
by rem123 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:29:33 AM PDT
Race+Gender-Baiting (7+ / 0-)
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You seem confused about the injection of race by the Clinton campaign.
You say: ME: I don't expect you to watch the sexism. I was hoping for a more fair reading from you. I think it's loopy to think Hillary has run a racist campaign. Really loopy. Again, the 3am ad, winning NH??? These are not signs of racism. If you respect a candidate, you run against them on the merits, which Hillary has done.
That's not an accurate read. What the Clinton campaign has time and again tried to do since December (when Obama emerged as a serious threat, by surging in IA, NH and SC) was to try and marginalize him as the "black candidate" (ala JJ's runs) which is a trick to get fewer whites to vote for him. Those tactics have been cataloged extensively here: Clinton attacks Obama: Incident Tracker Wiki.
Here is a sampling of those incidents:
Race-Baiting'08
1 Billy Shaheen: Barack Obama May Have Been a Drug Dealer! December 12, 2007 2 Hillary Clinton: Actually, LBJ Did it. January 7th, 2008 3 Bill Clinton: I can't make her... black? 6 Andrew Cuomo: Shuck and Jive. January 10, 2008 7 BET Founder Bob Johnson Attacks. January 13, 2008 8 Three Volunteers Resign for Spreading MADRASSA EMAIL. December 2007 9 Bob Kerrey and his Dog Whistle. December 17, 2007 10 Andrew Cuomo: Beautiful Symbol. January 10, 2008 11 Bill Clinton: Fairy Tale & Kid. January 2008 13 Bill Clinton's Charlie Rose Interview. December 14, 2007 14 Hillary Clinton: I just don't want to see us fall backwards. Jan. 8, 2007 16 Clinton Team Quietly Raise Obama's Cocaine Use. December 11, 2007 17 Geraldine Ferraro. January 14, 2008 19 Rangel: Obama put drug use in book to sell books. January 14, 2008 21 Playing on the Obama-will-be-assassinated fears. Jan 7, 2007 22 Hillary Shufflin' about Bob Johnson. January 15, 2008 23 Black and Brown Instigation. January 9, 2008 24 Lawd, the Black Man will DOOM..DOOM the entire ticket. February 13, 2007 25 State Senator Robert Ford on Obama's Iowa Victory. January 7, 2008 32 Bill Clinton says people in South Carolina will vote for Obama only because he's black. January 23, 2008 35 Bill Clinton: S.C.? No problem, Obama = Jesse Jackson. January 26, 2008 40 Clinton Camp Spreads ' Obama has a CULT' Memo. February 17, 2008 41 Ed Rendell: Obama is BLACK and White folk won't vote for him. February 12, 2008 43 Obama is a Scary Muslim Once Again. February 25, 2008 44 Harold Ickes: Obama is Jesse Jackson Once Again. February 25, 2008 45 Geraldine Ferraro: Obama is LUCKY to be Black. March 10, 2008 46 Bill Clinton: what happened in SC is a "myth and a mugging" 47 'Not that I know of'!
Details, links, videos and commentary: clintonattacksobama Incident Tracker
The Clinton campaign has done plenty of gender baiting too: they ran specious and false abortion mailers in NH distoring Obama's pro-choice record (which I see as clear gender baiting), Ferraro was gender-baiting in her out-burst, Bill Clinton and Hillary have more recently done it more directly. Many of her supporters (including Elton John 2 days ago) gender-bait left, right and center.
Clinton camp's race-baiting Iraq war: Clinton and McCain's dereliction of duty
by NeuvoLiberal on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:30:52 AM PDT
Thanks for the info and link... (1+ / 0-)
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They must have someone on staff to think this crap up.
"I'm a muse, stupid!"
by Lava20 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:50:20 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Slither back to your hole (3+ / 0-)
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and take your slimy diatribe with you.
Standing on the shoulders of John Brown-Ida B Wells-David Walker-Paul Robeson-Fannie Lou Hamer.
by kiki236 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:30:56 AM PDT
(1+ / 0-)
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Lava20
by Cat Whisperer on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:31:19 AM PDT
The rhetoric here is unhelpful (2+ / 0-)
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I like both Obama and HRC and think that Obama is a better presidential candidate, although I think HRC would make a much better cabinet secretary.
I have been going around Daily Kos calling for people to tone down the HRC bashing. (And, briefly, was going around MyDD criticizing the Obama bashing there.)
Anyhow: it could be that some of your criticisms of Brazile are valid, but you're throwing in a lot of value judgment words such as "shockingly" and "politically expedient."
If you were trying harder to use neutral language and let the facts, as you see them, speak for themselves, maybe you'd get a fairer hearing for your argument.
by sclminc on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:31:24 AM PDT
... (9+ / 0-)
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Your political compass Economic Left/Right: -6.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.67
by bythesea on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:31:51 AM PDT
Cool....laser cats!............eom (1+ / 0-)
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AaronInSanDiego
"I'm a muse, stupid!"
by Lava20 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:50:59 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Well, this is a fairly crazed diary, isn't it? (2+ / 0-)
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Nice deranged Friday morning rant, all in all. I rather like Donna Brazille. Her e-mails to you are spunky and reasonable enough. Lots of passion, lots of honesty about how she feels. Is having a personal opinion not okay?
One of the problems in the Democratic Party has long been a lack of respect for those who commit the terrible, unforgivable crime of losing a previous election. In that regard the Republican Party accords far more honor to its also-rans, rather than briskly shoving them aside in order to rush off in search of the next potential savior or pundit de jour. The Republicans do a better job of supporting those who lose, so their experience can be called on later. Donna Brazille is doing an accurate job of describing that phenomena. It cannot have been fun for her to lose the 2000 campaign by a series of flukes she had no control over. Remember the negatives? Bill Clinton, Impeachment, Palm Beach, Joe Lieberman, voter purging in Florida? Add those all up and Gore would have won Florida by 200,000 votes. One cannot blame Brazille for those "imperfect storms".
Have the Clintons run a "wink and nod" racist campaign to date? I am afraid there were things Clinton needed to apologize for, remember? Bill dismissing Obama's wins as a purely racial phenomena, for one. But what about Iowa, one of the two whitest States in the nation? Oops, okay, not that one, but look over here, look over here! Let's face it, the Clintons are hard-scrabble, bare knuckles campaigners. Nothing seems to be off the table for them. That is in part why many Republicans grew to loathe them. Sure, Clinton supporters (this diarist for one) can say the Clintons were disliked because they were so effective. Umm, maybe, but this election has forced me to reconsider the Clinton period. The facts are more nuanced than I recalled.
by arthura on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:33:01 AM PDT
Definitely bad form to post emails (5+ / 0-)
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fcvaguy, joejoe, Pager, Deoliver47, winsock
by tony26 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:33:48 AM PDT
What BS! (3+ / 0-)
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MKSinSA, Deoliver47, Lava20
by wuod kwatch on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:35:23 AM PDT
Obama DNC Chair? (0+ / 0-)
What's that about in the title? Can you clean that up please?
"To kill one person is murder. To kill thousands is foreign policy." Chinese writer Moh-Tze
by ILean Left on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:36:50 AM PDT
You... (0+ / 0-)
Read what you want to read, comprehend what you want to comprehend.
The fact of the matter is that Donna Brazile is right.
Clinton has only herself and her inevitability to blame for her current situation. Personally, I believe that is psychologically unsoothing for you.
And I'm HR your ass for the messiah reference.
by EntrWriter on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:37:46 AM PDT
Donna Brazille actually wrote: (2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Dartagnan, Lava20
Just be up to date in your criticism and go back and read my columns, see my interviews and then walk a moment in the shoes of someone who calls a spade a spade.
I find that hard to believe.
The Corrupt Bastards Club: What the GOP calls itself behind closed doors.
by 8ackgr0und N015e on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:39:43 AM PDT
Why? n/t (0+ / 0-)
-3.12, -5.90Gondwana has always been at war with Laurasia.
by AaronInSanDiego on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:56:52 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
I got blasted for saying that once (0+ / 0-)
I was told that "spade" is a derogatory epithet aimed at black people.
Maybe it's a generational thing. Here's what Wikipedia says:
The phrase "black as the ace of spades" is very commonly used, referring to objects, the sky at night, or a person of African descent with very dark skin. This is the origin of the racial epithet "spade".
The Corrupt Bastards Club: What the GOP calls itself behind closed doors.
by 8ackgr0und N015e on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 11:28:51 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
But the phrase (0+ / 0-)
"call a spade a spade" has nothing to do with that.
Wikipedia:
The phrase predates the use of the word "spade" as an ethnic slur, which was not recorded in usage until 1928.
-3.12, -5.90Gondwana has always been at war with Laurasia.
by AaronInSanDiego on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 11:32:39 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
That was what I said, but they spent 30 minutes (0+ / 0-)
upbraiding me for that when the point of my comment was completely unrelated to anything racial. The guy I was criticizing was white like me. The response by the people in the meeting was so hostile, I said fuck it... this is why I can't work with Communists... and left the coalition.
The Corrupt Bastards Club: What the GOP calls itself behind closed doors.
by 8ackgr0und N015e on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 11:37:43 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Ah, well (0+ / 0-)
I understand your reaction then, but that doesn't mean everyone regards the phrase that way. I've heard more than one black person use the phrase.
-3.12, -5.90Gondwana has always been at war with Laurasia.
by AaronInSanDiego on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 11:41:15 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
I use it all the time (0+ / 0-)
but then I play spades
Anthropologists for human diversity; opposing McCain perversity
by Deoliver47 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:45:42 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
Troubling ... (0+ / 0-)
I find the writer of this post to be very confused. What exactly is he looking for from Donna Brazille? (I do question the validity of these emails, too.) Assuming these emails are true, I think "Brazille" made excellent points and she does not call Clintons racist. By the way, I think is wrong to post personal emails on a blog without getting permission or letting the person know ahead of time you want to use the info.
HRC has not run a campaign of "the buck stops here" and her idea of an apology is "I regret if anyone was offended, even thought it is there fault if they were, because that is not what me, my husband, or my surrogate meant to say repeatedly." She didn't take responsibility for Ferraro's comments or Carville's and she let them keep repeating them for days and weeks.
Why is there this game to get Obama supporters to admit that there is sexism is against HRC? There is but that doesn't mean we have to vote for her. There is blatant racism and "othering" of Obama but HRC supporters don't have to vote for him out of any type of fear of being called racist. All of this arguing is really counterproductive.
HRC supporters please name someone high level in the Obama campaign who has used sexism as a way to attack Sen. Clinton. Please do so and I'll listen. Senator Obama has never been asked to apologize over a sexist remark. That shows something.
by loper2008 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:41:53 AM PDT
Hillary and Bill offended the Black community (3+ / 0-)
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with some of the stuff they tried to do to define Obama as the Black candidate. Message from the Clinton camp: he can't win because he's black, and because his middle name is Hussein (pssst.... he might be one of them Muslims!).
Hillary can't win elections in the Democratic party without the African American vote. What Donna says (if this was really Donna) is true:
DB: I defended the Clintons and it was Black people who kept their asses in office.
You have to understand that Blacks were deeply offended-- not that the Clintons would go after Obama aggressively, but because they tried to use Obama's blackness as a reason not to vote for him.
Aside from what I say above, your whole premise here, seems to be that it is Donna Brazile's responsibility to defend Hillary from sexist remarks and charges of racism!
Why? Donna apparently feels that the Clintons have let her down after she defended them for years... why is it her responsibility to try to pull their asses out of the fire yet again?
by juca on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:46:31 AM PDT
Black folks are mad because the Clintons (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Anna Luc
are like a relative who was invited for Sunday dinner who then felt that he was entitled to come again. And then had the nerve to pick fights at the dinner table.
"The race is not always to the swift, but to those who keep running."
by Fasaha on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:53:17 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
When Bill Clinton Goes To Rush Limbaugh To HELP (5+ / 0-)
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His wife you know the Clintons are not democrats.
Obama '08 Dont Be Fooled. CHANGE Is Real And It Starts In YOU?
by DFutureIsNow on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:48:24 AM PDT
amen and amen (0+ / 0-)
or awoman awoman.Clintons have become repugnant.This is why they are helping rush.They will do anything to win.If they can't get the dems to elect them they will go after and gladly welcome the rep vote.They have made Rove look like a school boy with the diabolical tactics they have used.
by desnyder on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:09:52 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
DONNA MEAN NEGRO! (2+ / 0-)
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MASSA DON'T WANT!
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assault of thought on the unthinking." - John Maynard Keynes
by Drew J Jones on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:53:06 AM PDT
If this means, as I think it does, that some (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Anna Luc
of us think that Donna Brazile can be considered for the DNC chair and that her comments were, well, obviously true--I agree.
"The race is not always to the swift, but to those who keep running."
by Fasaha on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:55:45 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
i love Donna (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Anna Luc
Donna for Dccc or dscc or dnc president (tho I like Dean's 50 state strategy) maybe ol' donna can get HRC and BJC to quit.
Go Obama!!!
"Self-knowledge is always bad news" John Barth, The Sot Weed Factor
by ellenhamm on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:57:36 AM PDT
You're way out of line. Goading someone into an (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
WeBetterWinThisTime
argument is a piss poor way of having a conversation
Democrats: The party of "We The People"
by DannyB on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:59:54 AM PDT
GOTCHA (2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Anna Luc, Enough Talk Lets Get Busy
Wow. Gotcha politics even exists at DailyKos. Who knew? I haven't read any of the other comments at this point (probably should) but I had to post this. Donna Brazile is as intelligent and loyal a member of the DNC leadership as there is. She said nothing here worthy of an all capitals headline. She said nothing worthy of a diary, actually.
You tried to spin her words into something in the most Rovian sense, and when you couldn't quite get it, you extrapolated wildly.
I don't disagree with anything she said. The Clintons aren't racists, but they have played a subtle racial game during this campaign. They are guilty of racial divisiveness, but I don't think either of them is ultimately David Duke. What Donna Brazile is saying (as if she needs me to speak for her) is that using race as an element to a hotly contested political campaign is the lowest of the low. It appeals to the worst in people and ends up scorching the earth to become its king or queen.
The Clintons have damaged their standing in the African-American community and Brazile is right to have an opinion on that. Shameful diary.
by mikeplugh on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:00:31 AM PDT
Nothing But a Troll Diary (5+ / 0-)
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Move along nothing to see here.
don't respond to the lies... put two bits in your Obama jar and spite them with his fund raising!
by Libesatva on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:00:46 AM PDT
"unlike the magical powers your messsiah bestows" (2+ / 0-)
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Fuck off Jay. You're a troll.
by babbitt on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:06:08 AM PDT
Really bad form (4+ / 0-)
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Anna Luc, blueyedace2, Junkyard Dem, MKSinSA
If this is indeed an exchange via personal e-mail between you and Donna Brazille, it is extremely bad form to publish them on the Web without her permission. You should be troll rated just for that (and you were, by me).
And, as many other have said, you come across far worse in this exchange than she does. So well done, you!
by Melquiades on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:06:34 AM PDT
Sounds like BS, but it's worse if it is true (3+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Anna Luc, Tanya, MKSinSA
I've never TRed anyone before and I hope I don't have to in the future. This diary is very unfortunate.
First, this doesn't sound like an e-mail exchange. And if it was, I wonder why the diarist insists that he doesn't have the IP paths, etc., to prove that it is true.
Second, if it is true, it takes a major creep to publish personal correspondence and draw such wild conclusions all of us.
Third, who the f*ck are you?
I'm so bitter that people grimace when they see me walking down the street.
by Junkyard Dem on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:15:53 AM PDT
Even if the diary was accurate its uncool behavio (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
LynneK
Unless, the diarist had informed Donna Brazile that he was going to publish the emails or got retroactive consent, it is inappropriate to publish private correspondence.
Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much. Oscar Wilde
by RationalMan on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:24:34 AM PDT
the clintons ARE racists. next question. (0+ / 0-)
..to be healed/the broken thing must come apart/then be rejoined.
by Zacapoet on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:31:41 AM PDT
The Clintons are Not Racists Enough of This BS (0+ / 0-)
Run that one up the flagpole too many times and MCCain will win going away. This is utter BS that the Clintons are racists. Say that and you are saying their supporters condone racism. The net result if Obama runs against McCain is that the millions of Clinton supporters will say a pox on both your houses. This is reverse race baiting and it plays right into the Republican's hands. It is the most divisive and foolish kind of politics.
by shamprez on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:37:53 AM PDT
this is just bullshit. delete this diary. (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Deoliver47
http://politicz.wordpress.com/
by GlowNZ on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:39:46 AM PDT
This JayATL person... (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Deoliver47
...also posted a pretty mean spirited, manic rant about Obama on MyDD.
http://www.mydd.com/...
It's very obvious that this person will do anything to discredit Barack Obama, including lying (I am now convinced that this exchange is a lie).
Please Kos, or someone, delete this TaylorMarshian whack-job diary.
I'm so bitter that people grimace when they see me walking down the street.
by Junkyard Dem on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:43:40 AM PDT
how do u troll rate a diary? (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Deoliver47
http://politicz.wordpress.com/
by GlowNZ on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:43:50 AM PDT
I suspect i will use up all my troll (2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
BlueInARedState, Deoliver47
ratings on this joker.
http://politicz.wordpress.com/
by GlowNZ on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:44:56 AM PDT
In fact, here's the whole JayATL Canon on MyDD (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
GlowNZ
http://jayatl.mydd.com/
I'm so bitter that people grimace when they see me walking down the street.
by Junkyard Dem on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:45:24 AM PDT
i guess i'm missing something (0+ / 0-)
i don't think donna said anything inappropriate.
by hn on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:50:17 AM PDT
You are not missing something (0+ / 0-)
This diary is by someone trying to bait people.
http://politicz.wordpress.com/
by GlowNZ on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:53:39 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
WHAT I DON'T GET IS WHY YOU LEFT THE LAST WORD (0+ / 0-)
IN LOWER CASE letters...
http://politicz.wordpress.com/
by GlowNZ on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:56:25 AM PDT
for a Black woman (0+ / 0-)
Race is far more of an issue than sex. Again, stupid PC morons who avoid the obvious.
Have White women ever been enslaved? Have White women ever had to sit at the back of the box? Have White women ever had their children sold into slavery?
Stop thinking that sex identity issues weigh as equally as race identity issues to Black women. You are a moron.
by grassroot vizir on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:08:10 AM PDT
Hard to tell what your point is (2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Junkyard Dem, MKSinSA
What was the point of your whole dialogue/argument with Donna B? I don't get it. The entire thing seems like an obsession with sexism and racism. In the end, putting all partisanship aside, I don't believe either candidate is sexist or racist; in fact, I believe just the opposite.
Obviously, you're still a Clinton supporter. I know it is hard for you to accept, but this race is over. Obama won. If sexism is one of your most important issues, turn your attention to McCain. As far as sexism goes, he should give you PLENTY to work with.
by fcvaguy on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:12:45 AM PDT
What a shitty attitude you have. (0+ / 0-)
If Obama has supporters like you, I hope they shut the fuck up about it.
McCain'08 - You Don't Change Horses At The Bottom Of An Abyss!
by kitebro on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 11:09:12 AM PDT
Permalink 167 comments
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