Shoot FIRST AND have LAST WORD
All new breed of policing to fit the bush years and the encroaching police state. Shooting people in their doorways, hiding their names, DON'T YOU DARE question their judgment and BEST YET they tell you that you are welcome.
Clearly this item was planted in order for LEOs to be able to swamp the comments to slant things THEIR WAY. Clearly, from what I read .. they're LOSING. lmao. I mean I had to be persistent but eventually I got my comment posted.
They need to test these folks for steroid use. If these really ARE leos commenting it's obvious taht there's something akilter ....(oh and hey 878 saw ya at church ... making you YEA a triple cunt i guess. A first in your category. All proud and all a real hero a real example for our yoots)
So, not only is their judment FUCKED but they don't want to BE judged before, during OR AFTER ... we need to shut up, get shot and be thankful.
SO TAKE THAT CITIZENS.
Chuck, That's REALLY something for floridians to look forward to. LEO that never goes away. Citizens are not supposed to DIE in their DOORWAYS.You guys are NOT the only ones with a SAY SO. Fire you as fast as you're hired. Remember that.
Officers train for last thing they want: to fire their gun
By Jamal Thalji, Times Staff Writer In print: Thursday, November 20, 2008
Instructor Deonne Dixon watches Timothy Standiford and Doug Willis practice shooting handguns at the Allstate Criminal Justice Center firing range Wednesday.
[WILLIE J. ALLEN JR. Times]
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Previous coverage: One week, three shootings
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Breaking News Video
They spend their law enforcement careers training for a decision they hope they never have to make:
Take a life to save a life?
Pinellas sheriff's Deputy B.J. Lyons spent decades training deputies to do just that. Then in May, a gunman opened fire at him in the St. Petersburg courthouse and Lyons' training took over.
In an instant, he drew his .45-caliber pistol, aimed and fired.
"I can teach you to fight all day, I can teach you to shoot all day," Lyons said, "but can I mentally prepare you to make the ultimate decision?
"Without a doubt, the hardest thing to do is tell yourself, 'Oh Lord, I've got to take a life here.' "
Three times in the past week, law enforcement officers in the Tampa Bay area have fired at someone in the line of duty. Two men died, and a third survived when the officer missed.
It's a decision officers are constantly drilled on, in the classroom and in the field, from role playing to high-tech simulators.
But one of the hardest things to teach is to pull the trigger when life depends on it.
Especially their own.
"The No. 1 objective," said training expert Roy Bedard, "is to go home."
In October, a Hernando deputy killed a man who shot at his own friends. A Largo officer killed a man he believed was going for a gun — which turned out to be a BB gun. And Hillsborough deputies killed a man brandishing a sawed-off shotgun.
Just within the past week, authorities say, a New Port Richey officer shot a man who ran at him with a butcher's knife, a Pinellas deputy missed a man he thought was reaching for a gun that turned out to be a flashlight, and a St. Petersburg officer killed a suicidal man who menaced officers with a machete and a gun.
Such scenarios are part of life for law officers.
So is this: Officers aren't trained to kill. They're trained to "stop the threat," in the parlance of law enforcement. The best way to do that is "aim for center mass" — and that can be fatal.
Cpl. Jared Douds, a Tampa police firearms instructor, compared aiming a gun under duress to threading a needle in a car crash.
"They have a split-second to make a decision whether they'll see their wife or kids again," Douds said. "That kind of stress is almost indescribable."
• • •
There's another psychological factor officers must overcome to make the right decision: Taking a life is an unnatural act.
"This natural mechanism may get you killed," said Bedard, a former Tallahassee cop and firearms expert. "Training has to teach officers how to take lives."
So how do you teach that?
"Those decisions come from a constant barrage of scenarios that condition the mind-set of the officer," Bedard said. "We put them in mock scenarios long before they encounter the real one."
Officers are trained to sort through several factors, Bedard said: What is the likelihood of harm? Does the suspect have the ability to harm? Is harm imminent? And is pulling the trigger the only option?
The officer's decision will forever be scrutinized — by fellow officers, prosecutors, the media and the public.
But under case law, officers aren't judged by hindsight. They're judged by whether they acted appropriately based on the threat they perceived at the time — not whether the suspect pointed a fake gun at them.
"We need to understand what the officer knew at the time," Bedard said. "It's always easy to pass judgment when you know the end of the story."
• • •
The decision to take a life will affect the officer's life. The occupation already carries a high risk of suicide and substance abuse. A shooting can bring everything from loss of appetite to post-traumatic stress disorder.
Sheriff's offices in Pinellas, Hillsborough, Pasco and Hernando all offer psychological counseling for their deputies.
"Before it was seen as more of a weakness, that someone wasn't strong enough to do the job," said Sgt. Thomas Acker, who heads psychological services for the Pinellas Sheriff's Office. "But the prevailing attitude now … is that having a reaction to having been involved in a deadly force situation is normal."
Deputy Lyons still trains officers. They often ask about the day he had to take a life.
"If he had gotten by us … it would have been a massacre," Lyons said. "I don't regret what had to be done because we saved a lot of lives that day.
"I've had people say I don't think I can do what you did. My answer is, you may have to, and yes, you can."
Jamal Thalji can be reached at thalji@sptimes.com or (727) 893-8472. [Last modified: Nov 21, 2008 07:51 PM]
Comments on this article
by Chuck
Nov 21, 2008 7:51 PM
Yes, I'm LE as well and respect their job. I will retire from NY L E and move to FL to Sheriff there as well. As for voxy, until you do the "job", your opinion is just an opinion. But on behalf of all us LEO's, you're welcome.
by Roy
Nov 21, 2008 6:07 PM
Voxy,that #1 objective for LEO's can never change. If a reporter asks the same question, it should ALWAYS get the same answer. Cops are not supposed to die doing there jobs. Sometimes they do. We continue to bury 120-150 of them every year.
by voxy
Nov 20, 2008 8:07 PM
The No. 1 objective," said training expert Roy Bedard, "is to go home." FOR ALL OF US Officer Bedard. There should be steroid teating on officers. This article sounds like a tired rerun when there have been too many shootings. Everyone be safe
by Rich
Nov 20, 2008 7:21 PM
Thanks for offering insight into these modern day heroes and warriors. Protectors of society will always be scrutinized after the fact. We the citizens support you and thank you from the bottom of our hearts!!
by Ruby
Nov 20, 2008 6:52 PM
The sad reality is cops have to kill bad guys to save lives. I know Dep. Lyons to be a decent man. It is sad there people who will murder innocents unless the good guys stop them. We are fortunate to have cops who protect us sheep from the wolves.
by James
Nov 20, 2008 4:54 PM
My dad was a sheriff for 34 years. He had to pull his piece several times in self defense. I admire our deputy's for doing their job. It is not easy to make split second decisions in the face of danger. The good ones out there are real heroes!
by JAMES
Nov 20, 2008 4:41 PM
SHOOT THE PERPS AND ASK QUESTIONS AFTER, SHAKE THEM DOWN AND YOU WILL FIND AII KINDS OF ILLEGAL WEAPONS.
by voxy
Nov 20, 2008 4:39 PM
this is the same tired rerun we get EVERY time. We know all this. Excercise the other options. EVERYONE GO HOME.
by justjenny
Nov 20, 2008 4:37 PM
Thanks for shedding light on this subject. There are many people who think Cops are just gun slingers with out feelings. To take a life will always be a hard decision to make. I'm thankful of Officers that are willing to put their lives on the line..
by LEO LOVER
Nov 20, 2008 4:35 PM
I think that officers should regularly be tested for steroids. It effects the judgment. You can see that some of them are on steroids. The symptoms are obvious.
by voxy
Nov 20, 2008 3:43 PM
two previous comments I enered about this being teh same litany they always run by us. Problem with that? Please publish all comments not just the LEO I have LE family also. Thank you.
by Jay
Nov 20, 2008 2:22 PM
It is great that this article was published to the effects that the officer has to endure at all times. In a world of litigation,unless your in the field,one always passes judgement. This story is right on target with the dealings of the job.thanks
by LEO GIRL
Nov 20, 2008 2:00 PM
as a trained Law Enforcement officer I can tell you that the decision is one you wrangle with everyday.
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