Friday, November 26, 2010

Pam Iorio City of Tampa Water TAINTED AND POISONED

and here's some more proof:
Reformulated dishwasher detergents can lead to chalky dishes
By Lorri Helfand, Times Staff Writer In Print: Friday, November 26, 2010
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Ana Sullivan of Clearwater Beach said she is embarrassed to have company over since she is no longer able to clean her glasses, dishes and silverware. “I did everything I could, changed dishwasher detergents four times and bought a new dishwasher,” she said.
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Nancy Lincoln's drinking glasses came out of the dishwasher so white and chalky that the Palm Harbor woman threw them away and bought new ones.
Gloria Share, who lives in East Lake, said her glasses were so filmy she thought she needed a new dishwasher.
Darrell Hoag Jr. was having a similar dish problem at his home in northeast Clearwater. And if he didn't get to the bottom of it, his wife wouldn't let him live it down.
Hoag is the service manager for APSCO Appliance Centers.
"The last thing I wanted to hear is my dishwasher wasn't working and I've got to work on it," said Hoag, whose Largo-based company serves customers in Pinellas, Pasco and Hillsborough counties.
Throughout the country, people — especially those with hard water — have reported similar complaints. The problem has been linked to newly reformulated detergents. To comply with new environmental regulations, manufacturers have recently removed all but trace amounts of phosphates, which keep minerals from clinging to dishes.
Pinellas County's director of utility operations, Bob Powell, said local water is traditionally hard, or high in minerals. From a housekeeping standpoint, it may be a nuisance, he said, but it's not a health concern.
For a number of people, their recent bout with chalky dishes is much more than a nuisance. Nell Macrini, 77, of Clearwater, said she had to scrub her silverware with a Brillo pad to get rid of the buildup.
Most of the recent phosphate regulations went into effect in July. But many detergent manufacturers rolled out their products months earlier, said Brian Sansoni, spokesman for the American Cleaning Institute, whose membership includes the majority of detergent makers.
Hernando and Pasco county officials said they were not aware of complaints about filmy dishes. But other local governments said complaints began to peak this summer.
Each month, Pinellas County utilities, which serves around 600,000 people, sees about four to six dishwasher-related complaints, Powell said. It had 20 in August, 16 in September and 54 in October. The county is working on an educational video about the issue.
Michelle Van Dyke, a spokeswoman for Hillsborough County's Water Resource Services division, said Hillsborough's water quality hotline had a noticeable increase in calls over the summer, but they've tapered off significantly in recent weeks.
Hoag and other Tampa Bay appliance and service centers said they were inundated with inquiries about chalky dishes. Calls to APSCO's service center more than doubled since phosphates were removed, Hoag said.
Stephen Daneman, store manager of Famous Tate Appliance and Bedding in Oldsmar, said he's been taking more customer phone complaints about dishwashers than any other product.
There are some fixes for the problem.
Hoag started noticing cloudy glasses and hazy spatulas about six months ago. He bought a new box of dishwasher detergent, thinking his old one had lost its effectiveness. That didn't work. So, he went back to the store and called one of his service technicians, Rick Watson, who suggested a product called Lemi Shine because that had worked for him and a number of his customers.
A few solutions are a bit unorthodox.
Some in the appliance business used to recommend using a scoop of Tang drink mix, Daneman said. (Hint: Don't try it if the inside of your dishwasher is plastic, unless you're really fond of orange.)
After the St. Petersburg Times reported about cloudy dishes near the Morningside Estates neighborhood, one woman called to say she had great results using denture cleaning tablets in her dishwasher.
Hoag suggests cleaning the dishwasher first with a citric acid product, if necessary. He also recommends using Lemi Shine, which contains fruit acids and fruit oils.
The product, which has been around about a decade, has generally been popular in hard water areas, said Marty Hammond, chief sales officer the manufacturer, Envirocon Technologies of Midland, Texas. Since bans on high-phosphate detergents went into effect, the privately held company is selling Lemi Shine in places it hadn't before, he said, and sales of have increased 50 percent.
Ana Sullivan, who lives on Clearwater Beach, is one of several local residents who bought new dishwashers only to realize they still had a problem.
"I did everything I could, changed dishwasher detergents four times and bought a new dishwasher," said Sullivan, 63.
Her silverware looks fine, she said, but her glasses "are not presentable for company."
Gloria Share thought she needed a new dishwasher, too. But the guy at APSCO in Clearwater said she didn't.
Instead, he handed her a sheet of paper with Hoag's suggestions. She tried them.
Now, she said, "All my glasses and dishes and everything are fine."
Warren Knapp, who lives in St. Petersburg, found another solution.
He went to Big Lots and bought a dozen boxes of the old Cascade. His friends in Seminole and Tierra Verde stocked up, too.
"We have enough that we'll survive a year and a half," he said."
Lorri Helfand can be reached at
Helpful tips
Tips from local repair shops and water officials:
• If the inside of your dishwasher is scaly, try a citric acid bath to clean your empty dishwasher. Many appliance stores supply them.
• Add about a tablespoon of Lemi Shine, available at grocery and discount stores, to the main wash cup. Make sure to fill the rest of the cup and the prewash cup with dishwasher detergent.
• A cup or two of regular white vinegar at the beginning of the wash cycle may also be helpful.
And more …
Suggestion from Procter & Gamble Co., which makes Cascade:
"Consumers who are having ongoing issues with spotting or filming might consider switching to a unit dose product like Cascade Action Pacs … (which) contain a water softening agent that helps reduce filming and ensures that consumers use the right dose every time."[Last modified: Nov 25, 2010 11:58 PM] Click here for reuse options! Copyright 2010 St. Petersburg TimesClick here to post a comment
If you see an objectionable comment, click Report Abuse.

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Viewing 1 - 23 of 23 comments
Oldest First Newest First Top Rated

helenhess Nov 26, 2010 12:45 AM About 12 hours ago
"123 Get Samples" is promoting a new line of detergent, tooth paste, lotion etc by giving away free samples. It’s more of the “try it before buy it” marketing model and who can resist a free useful household product like detergent? This free sample is limited to one per household and only available while supplies last.
Reply Report Abuse 0 0

willie_from_penniless_park Nov 26, 2010 6:47 AM About 6 hours ago
thanks for this article - i thought i was going nuts... my solution was to clean our glasses with vinegar - this is a PITA!
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handyandy Nov 26, 2010 6:53 AM About 6 hours ago
we, like willie, have been using vinegar to get the existing crud off. Finish Jet-Dry rinse agent that comes in little plastic baskets that you hook to the rack seems to be helping as well as the action packs. Between the two we are OK.
Reply Report Abuse 0 0

willie_from_penniless_park Nov 26, 2010 6:57 AM About 6 hours ago
btw, we also faced replacement of our expensive shower heads (multiple-setting massage type) due to the crappy hard water here in Pinellas, but found that a 50-50 overnight soak in CLR made 'em brand new - saved us more than $200!
Reply Report Abuse 0 1

Fredmiller Nov 26, 2010 9:18 AM About 3 hours ago
Don't do it willie. CLR will eat off the chrome... I guess you will find that out though. Nevermind.
Reply Report Abuse 0 0

jssr Nov 26, 2010 7:27 AM About 5 hours ago
Walmart carries Lemi Shine...All you need is a teaspoon with the detergent. It works. This piece of advise cost me 80.00 after the repairman found nothing wrong with the dishwasher.
Reply Report Abuse 0 0

unitedhybrid Nov 26, 2010 7:27 AM About 5 hours ago
What a waste! Throwing away your dishes? RECLEAN THEM, DUMMIES! Actually do some manual labor for once! This filmy business though, I've been noticing it for awhile. I knew it was the detergent. And yes, I recleaned them manually and stopped using the dishwasher. (OoOoO... MANUAL LABOR! It KILLS me!) But this is because everyone is on the "Phosphate Scare". There's phosphate in your darn toothpaste! GEEZ WHIZ! Seriously... people are really, really stupid. Someone attacks something and suddenly it's bad for you. High Fructose Corn Syrup? Puhleaze!
Reply Report Abuse 3 1

Fredmiller Nov 26, 2010 9:32 AM About 3 hours ago
Phosphates, aspartame, saccharine, corn syrup, teflon, aluminum, copper, lead, ddt, plastics, chlorine, fluorides, pesticides , weed killers, mercury, arsenic and PCBs puhleaze! What a bunch of whinebabies. The human body is so full of toxic chemicals now that we will have to be buried as hazardous waste. You can bet your arse that the wealthy avoid these substances like the plague while they own the companies that sell them to the rest of us.
Reply Report Abuse 0 1

Darby Nov 26, 2010 7:47 AM About 5 hours ago
Correction, environmental wacko regulations.
Reply Report Abuse 5 1

straightup Nov 26, 2010 8:00 AM About 4 hours ago
Did anybody give a thought to not being so anal, and who cares about a little cloudyness on your drinking glasses.
Reply Report Abuse 2 1

truth10 Nov 26, 2010 9:48 AM About 3 hours ago
Martha Stewart and all the rest of us on here, evidently.
Reply Report Abuse 0 1

truth10 Nov 26, 2010 9:51 AM About 3 hours ago
It's not really about the glass.It's harder to judge the wine in it.
Reply Report Abuse 0 2

straightup Nov 26, 2010 10:25 AM About 2 hours ago
The Maddog will taste the same from your glass, the bottle, or a paper cup.
Reply Report Abuse 1 2

Dave in St Pete Nov 26, 2010 8:17 AM About 4 hours ago
I was having the same thing and wondered what it was! I switched to Cascade with Dawn packets and they seem to work fine but WOW, are they expensive! Can you use the Lemi Shine with the less expensive power type detergent?
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seneca77 Nov 26, 2010 8:50 AM About 4 hours ago
@Dave, yes you can. It works wonders!
Reply Report Abuse 0 0

Dave in St Pete Nov 26, 2010 9:25 AM About 3 hours ago
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madbeach Nov 26, 2010 9:00 AM About 3 hours ago
I found an old box of Electrasol tablets under the sink. They work great. Maybe I can get some more on my trip to Mexico.
Reply Report Abuse 0 0

stcreeptimes Nov 26, 2010 12:35 PM About 5 minutes ago
Enjoy your trip ; visit
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Fredmiller Nov 26, 2010 9:22 AM About 3 hours ago
You can add white vinegar to the rinse cycle and it will remove the cloudiness. It will also etch your glasses and dishes. Your dish racks will rust quicker too. A replacement rack can cost 100 dollars.Maybe the cloud is not so bad after all.
Reply Report Abuse 0 0

Fredmiller Nov 26, 2010 9:35 AM About 3 hours ago
Clean the filters on your dishwasher. If you really can't stand it get a whole house water softener.
Reply Report Abuse 0 0

atoz Nov 26, 2010 9:58 AM About 3 hours ago
Fred, I have a whole house softener and it helps, but does not eliminate the film.
Reply Report Abuse 0 0

unitedhybrid Nov 26, 2010 10:16 AM About 2 hours ago
That's because you live in Florida.
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straightup Nov 26, 2010 10:31 AM About 2 hours ago
If you posters keep mentioning lemi shine someone in the goverment will take notice, and they will look at the ingredience, figure out it is harmful to you, re-do it, and then it won't work either.
Reply Report Abuse 1 1

nextbigTHANG Nov 26, 2010 10:34 AM About 2 hours ago
These are lies. It's the WATER. My dishwasher began doing this IN THE MIDDLE of the SAME bottle of detergent. Explain THAT away. It's the water. Check your skin and hair and nails and the too frequent breakage of your dishes as well as the tendency of your clothes to shred. It's something they are doing to the water. It's something they have added to the water. It's not just cloudy. It's a sticky mess and the water sickens pets and family. This article is based on lies with planted witnesses. We've stopped using our house water entirely or we'd all be dead by now. Take it out of state and get it tested. Why do you think they stopped allowing WATER on airplanes?? Duh. You'll have to drive it like we did.
Reply Report Abuse 1 1

nextbigTHANG Nov 26, 2010 10:39 AM About 2 hours ago
Even bleach does not remove what it puts on dishes. Imagine THAT in the pores of your skin and on your teeth. If you read about water as a weapon you will begin to understand what pam did in tampa and what rick baker did in st pete. THEY KNOW. When I complained about the water no one came to check it but Pam Iorio DID stalk me out of Publix with large gallons of bottled water THE VERY NEXT DAY. SHE KNOWS. She and Rick Baker and others should be IN PRISON. They are displacing populations and replacing them with drug traffickers. Look around you. Are those your neighbors from before? NO. You are surrounded by gang members some of whom are police and FBI but gang loyal first. Please wake up to what they are doing.
Reply Report Abuse 1 1

straightup Nov 26, 2010 11:06 AM About 1 hour ago
nextbigthang.... you are a whackjob..... you must be a female, no way can a male be that messed up.
Reply Report Abuse 1 0

nextbigTHANG Nov 26, 2010 10:40 AM About 2 hours ago
All the replace pipes?? Selectively sent to different homes by way of the new system.
Reply Report Abuse 1 0

Karen2104 Nov 26, 2010 10:48 AM About 2 hours ago
Welcome to the new "clean", brought to you by tree huggers everywhere.
Reply Report Abuse 2 0

brian egmont key Nov 26, 2010 10:54 AM About 2 hours ago
suffer on americans
Reply Report Abuse 1 0

TBayBucs Nov 26, 2010 11:12 AM About 1 hour ago
I just started noticing it a couple weeks ago... a white chalky residue on everything... it can barely be scrubbed off... wtf?
Reply Report Abuse 1 1

mdiddy80 Nov 26, 2010 11:25 AM About 1 hour ago
How dare our waterways! You mean to tell me that I have to endure a harmless white residue on my dishes so that we can eliminate hundreds upon hundreds of tons of phosphorus pollution that causes algal blooms, fish kills, and seagrass loss? The nerve of big government! Surely the phosphate industry could be better trusted to address this issue, right? The plight we have to endure. Oh, the horror.
Reply Report Abuse 2 1

mymindisclear Nov 26, 2010 12:18 PM About 22 minutes ago
We switched to Finish brand powerball tabs and have had better results.I still need to go get some Lemi Shine. The only thing I question is if the residue was bad for all of us, would they really say so?I doubt it.
Reply Report Abuse 0 0

nextbigTHANG Nov 26, 2010 12:42 PM Less than a minute ago
It's the water. It's NOT the detergent. If it's the detergent then please explain how it all started at the same time, CANNOT BE WASHED OFF OR BLEACHED OFF, FEELS NASTY and the water feels nasty on your hands yet we were in THE MIDDLE of a bottle of dishwashing detergent. NOT a new one, not a new brand. The middle of a previously purchased one which up until about a week and a half ago was washing just fine. Normal as ever except for the breakage. Let's see into Rick Baker's dishwasher and Pam Iorio's and all the city and county employees'. I want to see their cloudy dishes. It's THE WATER.
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nextbigTHANG Nov 26, 2010 12:44 PM Less than a minute ago
Please explain why they are laying water pipes down but not taking old ones out. Please explain why they are laying water pipes across america everywhere you LOOK but yet in many of these places people are NOT on public water but on WELL. WATER WARS. Google water as a weapon and think.

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However -- (you knew this was coming, right??) -- I'm willing to disclose same for a fee. In fact, I'm going to disclose some of this in a book which will definitely be for sale very soon but if you'd like to know if your name or some similar aspect that identifies your smarmy and illegal acts towards me and my family have been mentioned I'd be happy to negotiate a fee with you. For the record, save your pennies if I've known you longer than thirty years. Out of respect for you and your family I'll leave your names out. Out of respect for you and your family I have remained silent. Apparently this same respect was not inbred in you. That's a pity but you and yours are safe with me. The ones who took it upon themselves to do your bidding against an innocent family are wide open just like they've left MY family wide open. Herewith I refer to my extended family and network many of whom are currently suffering at your hands. Be on notice.

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